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Aconite toxicity.

Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 16:57:09 GMT
Sender: HERB.TREARNPC.EGE.EDU.TR
From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone.POP.COM>
Subject: Re: Aconite/Chaun Wu/Cao Wu

: I am new to this discussion list. What I am seeking is information on the herb (a rootstock I think) - called "Aconite".
: This herb often goes by its chinese names of "Chaun Wu" and "Cao Wu".
: I am especially curious if anyone has ever heard of any chronic effects from an overdose. Additionally, I seek to find a person who is familiar with the processing of the herbs into a less toxic quality. Finally, does anyone know if the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has banned any aconite or derivative?

Prepared aconite (Fu zi), as used in Chinese herbalism, is essentially nontoxic. Chuan wu is Sichuan aconite, a variety used for conditions of special Cold (it is Hotter and more toxic than the common variety). Cao wu is wild aconite, and is Hotter and more toxic than Chuan wu (it is rarely used).

Atropine is not considered a particular risk for chronic effects. If you survive a toxic dose, you should make a full recovery. [Posted 2 hours later: Brain burp, sorry... That should have been 'aconitine.' Atropine is, of course, famous as an --antidote-- for Monkshood.]

The FDA has not banned any aconite product to my knowledge.

Your turn. Why the interest? Had a bad effect from a particular formula or doctor and are looking for someone, something to blame?

--Paul || p_iannone.pop.com


From: Michael Moore <hrbmoore.RT66.COM>

>The FDA has not banned any aconite product to my knowledge.

Actually, the import and sales of Aconite preparations IS federally forbidden...which is why the cured Fu-Tse (Fo-Tzu - or, as you mention, Fu zi) is often labeled "Rhizome Carmichaelii" and such.

Even though I agree that this level of cured Aconite is relatively safe (greyish semi-transluscent concave cross-sections), there is ANOTHER cured Aconite root that is "puffed" and convex in the center that is VERY STRONG. The UNCURED root, greyish little oblong pellets, sometimes bound at the crown in pairs, is VERY TOXIC...I have had bradycardic reactions with massive parasympathetic discharge myself from simply grinding them and inhaling the dust...and a friend as had to stop using an oil liniment he makes for body working...too strong a nerve sedative.

Don't get me wrong...I may be only one of a handful of western herbalists who feels comfortable using raw Aconite...I make a 1:4 tincture of the FRESH HERB...I find the root too strong...and follow the Eclectic specific indications of Scudder, Felter and Wilson (with a loading dose of 5-6 drops)...it is one of my energy movers for early febrile states, along with Gelsemium, Veratrum and Bryonia. I gather these all myself and ONLY use fresh plant preparations (EXCEPT Veratrum, which I use 1:10 dry bulb)...that way I can test each batch and make sure I have an appropriate dosage for THAT strain.

I have had great success over the years using the CURED root in a non-Chinese fashion...for pernicious slow-histamine responses and for part of a broader strategy in long-term cocaine and amphetamine withdrawal.

BUT...there have been extensive reports the last several years from Hong Kong regarding SERIOUS poisonings from CURED Aconite usage...either from "quackish" non TCM usage (the cured root can be VERY speedy) or from inferior and improperly cured Aconite slipping into the normally reliable marketplace.

And there is NO specific treatment for Aconite poisoning...simply life support.

(and, not to get too fussy here, the primary alkaloid is aconitine...atropine is one of the "belladonna" alkaloids, solanaceous, and rather treatable in even high overdose. Aconitine and its relatives are a real pisser to treat in overdose)

Michael Moore (hrbmoore.rt66.com)


From: "Claudette A. Aras" <Carras.AOL.COM>

Greetings newcomer:
I don't know much about Aconite (Aconitum colombianum, - also commonly known as Monkshood or Wolfsbane,) myself, except that all parts of it are deadly poisonous, but the roots win the Most Poisonous Part award. It's sometimes grown in flower gardens as an ornamental because of its gorgeous midnight blue or rich purple hooded blossoms.

> am especially curious if anyone has ever heard of any chronic effects from an overdose.

No specific knowledge here, but it seems it might be difficult to have chronic effects from an overdose of aconite, because 'chronic' suggests something happening over a period of time, and with the poisons in aconite... hmmmm, maybe one doesn't need to worry about chronic problems?

>Additionally, I seek to find a person who is familiar with the processing of the herbs into a less toxic quality.

There are prepared homeopathic remedies of Aconite, which are useful for a number of problems. Tinctures and linaments are good for pain, herpes and other probs (use flowers and aboveground parts only) as long as you don't apply to broken skin. Inform yourself thoroushly on dosage for internal use of tincture. If you're prepared to make your own homeopathic remedies, get some good instruction and go for it - but diluting things hundreds of times, counting each successive dilution as you go, is tedious, one could almost say, chronic.

>Finally, does anyone know if the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has banned any aconite or derivative?

Sorry - no info on that. Maybe someone else on the list can help you in that department, as well as its uses in Chinese medicine.


From: Michael Moore <hrbmoore.RT66.COM>
Subject: Aconite Toxicology (Lancet)

(this is probably breaking several copyright laws, but it is the interests of knowledge...maybe Lancet will reprint something from one of MY books and call it even)

Title: Cardiotoxicity after accidental herb-induced aconite poisoning.

Authors: Tai, Yau-Ting; But, Paul Pui-Hay; Young, Karl; Lau, Chu-Pak
Citation: The Lancet, Nov 21, 1992 v340 n8830 p1254(3)

Abstract: Seventeen Hong Kong residents were hospitalized with serious heart arrhythmias and two died after drinking a tea made from aconite, the dried root of the plant Aconitum. None had a history of heart arrhythmia. They began having symptoms - including nausea, vomiting, dizziness and palpitations - within three minutes to two hours after drinking the preparation. All were hospitalized, and seven had to be given CPR. Two patients died from ventricular fibrillation, but the rest were stabilized with 24 hours on various antiarrhythmic drugs. All were eventually discharged and 13 were followed-up an average of 15 months later. All were in good health with no evidence of arrhythmia. An investigation revealed that the root had not been boiled properly in many cases; boiling destroys the toxic chemical. The sale of these kinds of herbal preparations should be strictly regulated.

<snip actual article>

Michael Moore (hrbmoore.rt66.com)


From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone.POP.COM>
Subject: Re: Aconite/Chuan Wu/Cao Wu

: Actually, the import and sales of Aconite preparations IS federally forbidden...which is why the cured Fu-Tse (Fo-Tzu - or, as you mention, Fu zi) is often labeled "Rhizome Carmichaelii" and such.

More mindless interference from the gov't....

: Even though I agree that this level of cured Aconite is relatively safe (greyish semi-transluscent concave cross-sections), there is ANOTHER cured Aconite root that is "puffed" and convex in the center that is VERY STRONG.

And more yellowish? Chuan wu?

: The UNCURED root, greyish little oblong pellets, sometimes bound at the crown in pairs, is VERY TOXIC...

That sounds like Cao wu. It is collected when the aerial parts have withered for the year, so it is seen joined by the top.

: BUT...there have been extensive reports the last several years from Hong Kong regarding SERIOUS poisonings from CURED Aconite usage...either from "quackish" non TCM usage (the cured root can be VERY speedy) or from inferior and improperly cured Aconite slipping into the normally reliable marketplace.

Well, let's note that Tang, Eisenbrand (Chinese Drugs of Plant Origin) list thirty species in the Chinese pharmacopeia, of varying toxicity (there are actually 44 species used, out of 167 in China). So the species used in folk medicine in the south may well be the issue.

Toxicity is NOT soley due to the amount of alkaloid present, but apparently to the specific mixture of two types of alkaloids in the plant (with the usual seasonal variability assuming sinister proportions here). In addition, the range of detoxification (from long steaming in salt water, usually), varies by about 8 fold (Bensky), and the presence of other herbs (notably ginger and licorice) in the formula can strongly reduce toxicity.

AND, the dose used (of Fu zi) in most formulas (except for severe arthritis formulas and the like) is about ten to thirty times below the toxic dose.

: And there is NO specific treatment for Aconite poisoning...simply life support.

Atropine is a specific, as is lidocaine (Bensky).

: (and, not to get too fussy here, the primary alkaloid is aconitine...atropine is one of the "belladonna" alkaloids, solanaceous, and rather treatable in even high overdose. Aconitine and its relatives are a real pisser to treat in overdose)

Yep, I corrected that brain hemorrhage earlier.

--Paul || p_iannone.pop.com


From: Karyn Siegel Maier <HerbalMuse.AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Aconite/Chaun Wu/Cao Wu

> What I am seeking is information on the herb (a rootstock I think) - called "Aconite".

Certainly the USFDA has banned its use...and I really hope you're not considering using it at home! Aconite (Aconitum Napellus) is an attractive flowering herb, but is highly poisonous. There is a good deal of Greek legend and Medieval folklore surrounding this herb, but one thing is clear: it has always been associated with , and used as a potent poison, legend or not. Aconite's other common names are Wolf's Bane, Wolfbane, and Monkshood.

The Chinese use several different species of Aconite in their medicine, and it's still used in homeopathy today. Used externally, the herb has been used in combination with others to ease bursitis, rheumatism, and arthritis. Internally, it reduces inflammation, blood pressure, fever, and slows heart rate.

Aconite (especially the root) is so dangerous because it contains many toxic alkaloids which are capable of supressing the nervous system even when given internally in trace amounts, or absorbed by external use.

There are dozens of other herbs that can provide the same medicinal value of Aconite...far better to look to them!


From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone.POP.COM>
Subject: Re: Aconite/Chaun Wu/Cao Wu

: There are dozens of other herbs that can provide the same medicinal value of Aconite...far better to look to them!

Nonsense. Prepared aconite is a safe and effective herb when used in appropriate herbal formulas. My mother takes just such a one daily, and has for years. It has helped her health enormously. 'Aconite' is the name of a genus, remember, and unless you specify, you can't paint all the plants, in all forms, with the same brush.

--Paul || p_iannone.pop.com


From: Michael Moore <hrbmoore.RT66.COM>
Subject: Re: Aconite/Chaun Wu/Cao Wu

>Nonsense. Prepared aconite is a safe and effective herb when used in appropriate herbal formulas. My mother takes just such a one daily, and has for years. It has helped her health enormously. 'Aconite' is the name of a genus, remember, and unless you specify, you can't paint all the plants, in all forms, with the same brush.

I would have to take SOME issue with such a broad statement, with THIS initial disclaimer (it seems that I must say things PRECISELY when addressing you):

I know very LITTLE about the Chinese (or Oriental) models. I have been surrounded by competent and above-average TCM and Ayurvedic folks for years, and have never felt any need to do what is ALREADY being done quite nicely. I, too, practice within an energetic model, but use the dialectic of physiology...sort of a neo-Eclectic model. I use some "Chinese" herbs because they have some unique effects within MY model...ones I have been unable to quite find local "substitutes" for as a bioregional herbalist. The Chinese herbs I use, I use with no intent at understanding them within a TCM model...I use them for my own purposes. As a "green" herbalist, everything stems FROM the plant initially, and I am always seeking to find the patterns of a plant's effects ON a person.

AS PLANTS:

NONE of the Angelicas I have gathered, grown, or been offered bear any relationship to Dong Quai (or Tang Kwei...I can hear you correcting already). The several cured "Dong Quai"s bear virtually NO resemblance, in HUMANS, to any uncured Angelica. It is a separate medicine, with a separate "drug" profile. This comes about because of the several curing methods.

I consider cured "Kirin" Chinese (NOT Shiu Chiu) and Korean "Red" Ginseng to be completely different therapies than ANY of the species of Ginseng...they might as well be a different Natural Order, the curing methods so completely alter their effect IN PEOPLE.

Fu-Tze (my spelling...it's what I was taught) has as little relationship to uncured Aconite as it does to Kiwi Fruit. It's effect IN HUMANS, at therapeutic doses, is nearlu 180 degrees skewed from ANY UNCURED ACONITE in the world, and MUST be considered as a completely seperate medicine. EVERY Aconite for whom I can find NatProdChem workups on has, as a dominant characteristic, the alkaloid Aconitine...virtually ABSENT from Cured Fu-tze.

Raw Aconite is a VERY low dosage medicine...which is why I only use the fresh aerial parts...easier to control...I will often dilute the tincture in 10 parts 65% alcohol so a patient can take 60 drops (2 squirts) rather than 6 drops. I LOVE Aconite...it has a frequent place in treating early, dry fevers, irrespective of the CAUSE of them. I have gotten a LOT of flack (I expected it) from putting Aconite in my new book, "Medicinal Plants of the Pacific West", because of its reputation as a poison.

DRIED Aconite Radix/Root/Rhizome is as close to an overt POISON as any herb I want to retain contact with...30-50 times stronger by weight than the fresh aerial parts.

AND, although there are 300 species of Aconitum globally, "lumpers" have estimated that there are perhaps TEN true species world-wide, since Aconitum is such a polymorphic and self-mutating species...In North America, estimates have varied from 35 species (splitters) to 3 species (lumpers). The old drug name "Aconitum napellus" actually encompassed several dozen virtually indistinguishable species...including A. columbianum of North America.

The fact that SO many "species" of Aconite are used in China is, in my opinion, simply the result of the differences between those "species" being membrane thin, similar to the somewhat uniform END product produced, in China, from several different Astragalii.

I have had gotten great value from the use of cured Aconite

I have gotten great value from the completely different use of Aconite HERB

I wouldn't touch the old "official" drug form, dried Aconite roots, with a ten foot pole...if I were to have to deal in FRACTIONAL drops of a 1:10 dried root tincture to offer a safe dosage to a client, I am in the WRONG profession.

(did all that make sense?)

Michael Moore (hrbmoore.rt66.com)


From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone.POP.COM>
Subject: Re: Aconite/Chaun Wu/Cao Wu - Reply

: > Nonsense. Prepared aconite is a safe and effective herb when used in appropriate herbal formulas. My mother takes just such a one daily, and has for years. It has helped her health enormously.
: Just out of curiosity, what symptoms or condition did the remedy serve to alleviate?

Aconite is a tonic. It can restore the function of organs that are no longer functioning well due to aging. In my mother's case, it supports her digestion, via boosting her Kidney Yang energies (as part of an utterly famous formula, in use now for at least 1,800 years [Ba Wei Di huang Wan]. Possibly a billion people have used this formula).

--Paul || p_iannone.pop.com


From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone.POP.COM>
Subject: Re: Aconite/Chaun Wu/Cao Wu

: NONE of the Angelicas I have gathered, grown, or been offered bear any relationship to Dong Quai (or Tang Kwei...I can hear you correcting already).

Current official spelling is Dang gui.

: The several cured "Dong Quai"s bear virtually NO resemblance, in HUMANS, to any uncured Angelica. It is a separate medicine, with a separate "drug" profile. This comes about because of the several curing methods.

Dang gui is not cured. It is simply dried and peeled. This is not to disagree with your point.

: I consider cured "Kirin" Chinese (NOT Shiu Chiu) and Korean "Red" Ginseng to be completely different therapies than ANY of the species of Ginseng...they might as well be a different Natural Order, the curing methods so completely alter their effect IN PEOPLE.

That curing is usually just steaming. Hardly a massive process.

: Fu-Tze (my spelling...it's what I was taught) has as little relationship to uncured Aconite as it does to Kiwi Fruit. It's effect IN HUMANS, at therapeutic doses, is nearlu 180 degrees skewed from ANY UNCURED ACONITE in the world, and MUST be considered as a completely seperate medicine. EVERY Aconite for whom I can find NatProdChem workups on has, as a dominant characteristic, the alkaloid Aconitine...virtually ABSENT from Cured Fu-tze.

Granted, though it is controversial that this single alkaloid is responsible for the plant's toxicity.

: The fact that SO many "species" of Aconite are used in China is, in my opinion, simply the result of the differences between those "species" being membrane thin, similar to the somewhat uniform END product produced, in China, from several different Astragalii.

Well, fine, but the chemistry of these various varieties differs greatly. As noted, Cao wu and Chuan wu are more toxic as a rule than Fu zi, before or after curing.

: (did all that make sense?)

Not to me (but I'm not sure if that matters). Are you disagreeing with me? Fu zi has been used for 2,000 years or so with almost complete safety as far as we know. Certainly, there is no great concern in the use of this herb properly prepared in formula, in the treatment of disharmonies due to aging.

Its use in arthritic conditions is more dangerous, as is the therapy used in conventional medicine (such as steroids).

--Paul || p_iannone.pop.com


From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone.POP.COM>
Subject: Re: Aconite Toxicology (Lancet)

: Before intoxication, each patient had ingested a decoction prepared from a compound herbal prescription that included the "cured" (processed) rootstocks of Aconitum carmichaeli, A kusnezoffii, and/or A brachypodum. The herbs were taken for rheumatism in 11 patients, respiratory tract infection in 4, as a "tonic" in 1, and for prostatism in 1.

I always love to see how medical hegemonists phrase things to produce prejudice. Here we are looking at three herbs. Which patients took which herb? Were the A. kusnezofii (Cao wu) or A. brachypodum cured, or not? The sentence is ambiguous. As previously stated, the roots of Cao wu are used uncured for rheumatism (while A. carmichaeli is very rarely used uncured). Obviously, that is a risky approach--quite similar to toxic regimes of heavy pain killers used in conventional medicine.

Given that the place of this problem is the south, the likely source of A. carmichaeli is NOT Fu zi, but Chuan wu, 'Sichuan aconite,' which is notably more toxic than the much more commonly used Fu zi (grown in Shansi, rather than Sichuan, and drawn from lateral roots, not the central rootstock).

A. brachypodum is NOT a commonly used species in the pharmacopeia.

Which cases didn't prepare the herb properly? Again, not stated. If the patient who used it for 'tonic' purposes didn't get the right herb, and didn't prepare it properly, this is hardly a condemnation of this herbs use for tonification regimes. Indeed, this herb is one of the few that can be considered a 'tonic.' It is indeed used to revitalize and 'tone' the heart muscle.

The mention of Uncaria and Angelica sp. is absurd. Luckily for us all (not), the Hong Kong hegemonists have their 'herb-haters' too.

--Paul || p_iannone.pop.com


From: Michael Moore <hrbmoore.RT66.COM>
Subject: Re: Aconite Toxicology (Lancet)

>I always love to see how medical hegemonists phrase things to produce prejudice.

This sounds overly critical to me...the Hong Kong Public Health folks are faced with:

WHAT'S starting to make some folks sick (for SICK they indeed are)

Its SEEMS to be Aconite preparations.

Aconite Preparations have NOT caused problems before, since the low-dosage preparations (potentially toxic) have been dispensed by careful and knowledgeable Chinese herbalists.

WHAT'S WRONG NOW??? What's changed with either the plant drugs, the quality of practitioners or the altered expectations of the patients that is allowing this to happen.

THIS IS WHAT THE ARTICLE IS ABOUT, although couched in Public Health Medicalese.

The fact that they haven't asked the advice of Chinese Herb Authorities is simply typical of civil servants...not going outside the local government for answers is NOT necessarily a sign of "medical hegemony", so much as it is the very nature of actions that makes most of us curse ANY middle-level government interface...from Motor Vehicles to the Soy-Bean Office.

That's my read on the article, Paul, but I am prone to viewing things in a rosy manner and forgiving my fellows, lest they look TOO closely at me, and having the Liberal's wishy-washy attitude...perhaps I lack your critical nature.

There IS something wrong in all this erudite discussion...mealy-mouthed on MY part, cranky and imperious in YOURS:

If you were to take a gram of the dried uncured root of ANY GODDAMN ACONITE SPECIES IN THE WORLD, you will get sick! Your constant reference to THIS species (from the south), THAT species (from the north) and ANOTHER species (perhaps, for all I know, from Odin's Asshole) is begging the issue.

ACONITES are DANGEROUS!!!

Even the cured roots that we both know and refer to can be dangerous, albeit for subtler reasons not purely toxicologic but energetic.

To a Homeopath, Nux Vomica and Ignatia are remedies with distinctly different profiles, but in moderate physiologic doses a normal human being will feel no difference between them...just the crazy electric hypertonic neuromuscular tremors and twitches of a bit too much strychnine. (trust me...I've tried both).

YOU may find important differences between the various Chinese UNCURED Aconite roots...that is begging the issue. IF YOU TAKE TOO MUCH, you get sick in the same way.

Some herbs are dangerous.
These should be dispensed by experienced therapists.
They should not be made available to those whom are in their "dabble" phase of herb experience.
They should not be made available to those who "wanna get off".
They should not be made available to those who feel a wide-eyed childish tendency to view all this stuff as "Safe and Nacheral"
They should not be part of any marketing or product line or MLM herb hustle.
If a government or medical guild prevents this from happening (because we are given no legal standing), we should do our best to SELF-REGULATE and EDUCATE.

It seems that you find any criticism of Aconite (except your own) to be abhorrant, because it isn't couched in YOUR dialetic. In your need to clarify and sharpen the definitions that are important to YOU, it seems that you find MIS-STATEMENTS far more important than defining the real-time dangers of Aconite excess.

At some point, when someone has taken several grams of uncured Aconite (any damn species), and they are faint, cold, shivery/clammy, and can't quite tell if they are remembering to breath because dermatome feedback is numbed out (I'm talking from both first and second-hand experience here), it doesn't matter about:
1. The Homeopathic profile,
2. The TCM energetics,
3. The Eclectic Specific Indications,

it is NOW the realm of TOXICOLOGY...

I have a feeling, Paul, that you wonder what I am getting at, and why I bother...

Nonetheless...in your careful and fussy attitude towards defending and clarifying the PROPER parameters of Aconite specifics, it seems, on READING your words, that, in your mind, SAYING it properly is more important than the physical reality of:

Uncured Aconite (of any species) is VERY dangerous.

Since virtually anyone with a knowledge of pharmacology, pharmacognosy or western botanical medicine will fail to understand the vital difference between ANY Aconite and the rather obscure (except to a relative few...like you and me) nature of Chinese Cured Aconite, we must be PRACTICAL.

At least half-a-dozen times over the last couple of decades I have run across students or customers who have gotten UNCURED Aconite from "Chinese" herb stores (both San Francisco and Vancouver), and, not knowing the difference, were ready to take it internally. I have known two acupuncturists (who should know better,) that have dug up native A. columbianum and wanted to know if they could use it as a local Fu-Tze", in their attempt to Use Local Herbs because they were boycotting China.

These were not STUPID people, just INEXPERIENCED in OUR world of herbs.

(I'm talked out...your turn, I'm afraid. The rest of you are invited to auto-erase any further discourse on the subject by either Michael Moore or Paul Iannone as soon as you see it coming...we are BOTH obviously stubborn old buzzards)

Michael Moore (hrbmoore.rt66.com)


From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone.POP.COM>
Subject: Re: Aconite Toxicology (Lancet)

: THIS IS WHAT THE ARTICLE IS ABOUT, although couched in Public Health Medicalese.

Then why the mention of Angelica and Uncaria?

: If you were to take a gram of the dried uncured root of ANY GODDAMN ACONITE SPECIES IN THE WORLD, you will get sick! Your constant reference to THIS species (from the south), THAT species (from the north) and ANOTHER species (perhaps, for all I know, from Odin's Asshole) is begging the issue.

No, it is not. My statements have been linear in their attempt to clarify that different plant PRODUCTS have different danger levels in their use. 'Fu zi' is essentially safe to use. The other pharmacal forms are not necessarily in the same safety range.

: ACONITES are DANGEROUS!!!

I never said that they weren't, but Fu zi is not what I would call 'dangerous.'

: YOU may find important differences between the various Chinese UNCURED Aconite roots...that is begging the issue.

Not according to Tang, Eisenbrand, Chinese Drugs of Plant Origin. They specifically point to the need for --TWO-- sets of alkaloids to be present for significant toxic effects to occur in moderate doses. Those vary in proportion from species to species, and no doubt by season too. Some species are minimally toxic because they only contain one.

Even so, I have NOT been discussing uncured aconite.

: It seems that you find any criticism of Aconite (except your own) to be abhorrant, because it isn't couched in YOUR dialetic. In your need to clarify and sharpen the definitions that are important to YOU, it seems that you find MIS-STATEMENTS far more important than defining the real-time dangers of Aconite excess.

I don't think that characterizes my posts at all. I use Fu zi in my practice, and consider that a safe practice--I give it to my mom, after all.

: Uncured Aconite (of any species) is VERY dangerous.

AND? I haven't said a word about uncured aconite, other than to note that its proper use in rheumatism is similar in danger as the use of steroids in the West.

: Since virtually anyone with a knowledge of pharmacology, pharmacognosy or western botanical medicine will fail to understand the vital difference between ANY Aconite and the rather obscure (except to a relative few...like you and me) nature of Chinese Cured Aconite, we must be PRACTICAL.

Really? I don't see what is so complex about understanding that long steaming will partially-hydrolyze the relevant alkaloids.

: These were not STUPID people, just INEXPERIENCED in OUR world of herbs.

No argument. I use prepared formulas containing PREPARED aconite (Fu zi). I don't even use the bulk herb--I rely on the manufacturer's expertise, which is substantial.

--Paul || p_iannone.pop.com


From: Paul Iannone <p_iannone.POP.COM>
Subject: Re: Aconite Toxicology (Lancet)

: I'd very much appreciate knowing which of the Aconites you are referring to in the statement above? Cured or uncured. What would be the dosage for use as a longterm tonic. Thanks much.

The ONLY aconite preparation I've been endorsing is:

Fu zi (long-steamed A. carmichaeli)

IN TRADITIONAL FORMULA, PREPARED BY SKILLED HI-TECH COMPANIES

As appropriate to the patient, after East-Asian traditional healing diagnosis, NOT for 'heart problems' or some such keynote, AND not for arthritis.

--Paul || p_iannone.pop.com



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